teacher’s level?

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Nobuaki said: Apr 6, 2006
Nobuaki Tanaka
Suzuki Association Member
Violin, Viola
Mount Prospect, IL
115 posts

hello everyone

Is there any resource to know how many people registered in each book? I wonder how many people registered all ten suzuki books

thank you

said: Apr 6, 2006
 26 posts

I don’t know how many have registered through book 10, but I know that many famous, well-respected Suzuki teachers (at least the ones who aren’t themselves teacher trainers) are now openly admitting they believe training beyond books 1 & 2 is a waste of time/money. Yes, you’ll get good ideas, but you could get those same ideas just by observing classes at the institutes and talking to the other teachers there.

Not to disparage anyone! I still plan to continue my training for systematic presentation of the ideas & for professional reasons…

Nobuaki said: Apr 6, 2006
Nobuaki Tanaka
Suzuki Association Member
Violin, Viola
Mount Prospect, IL
115 posts

It also depends who you study in each book. I feel waisting time with one teacher and I learned tremendously when I studied higher level books. So important thing is who you study to get a registration.

thank you

Mariam said: Apr 6, 2006
Mariam GregorianViolin
Ashburn, VA
34 posts

I agree that it absolutly depends on with whom you study.

I am registered in Books 1-10, and I feel that the training I received was invaluable. I worked with a trainer that had many years of experience producing top level players, and therefore had tremendous insight into what it takes to go from Twinkles to Tchaikovsky Concerto.

I completed my training as part of a 2 year Masters program. It involved many hours of classroom work and observations, as well as the opportunity to have the teacher trainer observe my teaching almost every week. I learned SO much!

said: Apr 6, 2006
 26 posts

Ah, and you bring up another thing, though. At summer institutes the teachers aren’t observing you teach, so in most cases it really is a lot like observing those same wonderful teachers.

I almost “don’t count” the long-termers in the “how many have registered each book” because the training is so different; it’s almost a given that the long-termers register 1-10 unless they drop the program mid-way.

Nobuaki said: Apr 6, 2006
Nobuaki Tanaka
Suzuki Association Member
Violin, Viola
Mount Prospect, IL
115 posts

Actually I was observing one of the short-term for few days. One of the teacher make them to teach short 10-15 minutes. So everyone gets feedback from the short-term teacher. It was quite impressive watching how everyone in the class teaches students.

thank you

said: Apr 6, 2006
 26 posts

That’s interesting. I’ve never heard of this happening in post-book one short-term classes before. Were they teaching institute students, or did they bring in their own students as they were able?

Jennifer Visick said: May 4, 2006
Jennifer VisickForum Moderator
Suzuki Association Member
Viola, Suzuki in the Schools, Violin
997 posts

At the Ithaca Suzuki Institute I was at last summer, they had several “play-in” classes in addition to repertoire and master classes. They had each class of teacher trainees “tag-team” teach one of the play-ins for the book-level they were studying.

I agree that it matters A LOT who your teacher trainer is. When I took 1A and 1B, I got what I expected: philosophy, pre-twinkle, and book 1 stuff. (this is violin). Then I took book 2. Guess what I got? A crash course in pre-twinkle and book 1, then an in-depth look at book 2 (violin). When I took book 3 (viola), I got a crash course in pre-twinkle, book, 1, and book2, before the teacher trainer actually got into Book 3. So I wasn’t surprised when, in books 3 & 4 (violin), I ended up getting lightning speed courses in how those trainers taught beginners up through the book they were teaching as well. It seems that each trainer felt their instructions wouldn’t make much sense if we didn’t have a background about what they already expected their students to know by that time.

I think it was good—for I got lots of different perspectives and ideas about when and how and why to teach specific techniques. As a young teacher—younger than most of my student’s parents—it’s quite helpful for me to refer to “tried-and-true” ideas from people who’ve been teaching 5 to 10 times as many years as I have.

said: May 4, 2006
 122 posts

Double stops, shifting, vibrato, advancement of artistry, transition from learning by ear to learning by music, development of a program, teaching group classes, developing independence and responsibility in practice, and so much more…

These are all reasons to take training beyond Books 1 and 2. Yes, taking Book 1 and 2 will give the basic setup for a student, but there is so much more to learning an instrument. I’d highly reccomend taking two years of your life to take long term, even if it means a move.

I’m such an advocate for long term training-I’ve done it twice with two different teacher trainers plus short term training in addition. Short term training is good for the ‘recipe’ for technique, but unless you take your short term courses with the same trainer there isn’t consistency in developing technique. Plus, where is the time for the hours of philosophical talk that is great for developing yourself as a teacher? And by taking short term you never see a teacher teach her/his own students.

I don’t think you can find out how many teachers are registered for how many books. I believe only the SAA admin knows this.

“When love is deep, much can be accomplished.”
-Shinichi Suzuki

Nobuaki said: May 9, 2006
Nobuaki Tanaka
Suzuki Association Member
Violin, Viola
Mount Prospect, IL
115 posts

Do you think SAA admin. willing to provide an information? I will contact them.

thank you

said: May 9, 2006
 122 posts

I highly doubt it-this seems like personal information.

“When love is deep, much can be accomplished.”
-Shinichi Suzuki

Nobuaki said: May 9, 2006
Nobuaki Tanaka
Suzuki Association Member
Violin, Viola
Mount Prospect, IL
115 posts

I don’t remember exactly. Shen I attended SAA conference two years ago, during the opening ceremony, the committee said that suzuki violin books purchase decrease tremendously after book 3 or 4. If you went to the conference two years ago, you may remember this statement. So I wonder how many people really use all 10 books. or how many people really register 10 books

I agree, some pieces in book 8 are not necessary. But book 4,5,6,7,9, and 10 are important.

anyway it’s only my thought. no offense

said: May 9, 2006
 122 posts

I don’t think anyone is taking offense, rather they are just trying to answer your questions.

From my experience many traditional teachers use the early books and after Book 4 they go out of the books. I don’t think there is a direct link between how many people get trained and registered in a book and how many books the manufactors sell-far more teachers use the Suzuki books than are trained in them. Plus, for some teachers there tends to be a dropout after/during Book 4-whether it’s because they send the kids to a traditional teacher or kids quit at that point I think is dependant on the teacher. Also, many teachers do not teach the Mozart concertos after Book 8 and delay them until further on in the student’s study, or use editions besides the Suzuki books.

“When love is deep, much can be accomplished.”
-Shinichi Suzuki

Connie Sunday said: May 9, 2006
Connie SundayViolin, Piano, Viola
667 posts

junebug, you are such an inspiration.

When you say “Double stops, shifting, vibrato, advancement of artistry, transition from learning by ear to learning by music, development of a program, teaching group classes, developing independence and responsibility in practice, and so much more…”

..it makes me want to go somewhere, where I can take all of the training. since {your quote here} is exactly the sort of thing I’m interested in. And I’m interested in taking is in three instruments, which is quite an ambition, I realize. :)

Free Handouts for Music Teachers & Students:
http://beststudentviolins.com/library.html#handouts

Nobuaki said: May 10, 2006
Nobuaki Tanaka
Suzuki Association Member
Violin, Viola
Mount Prospect, IL
115 posts

After I teaach several years, I realized that I should also take another classes other than Suzuki, suchas “music together” “orff” and othters. It may help teach younger students and can combing both suzuki and other method and improve my teaching skill.

Cynthia Faisst said: May 11, 2006
Cynthia Faisst
Suzuki Association Member
Violin, Suzuki Early Childhood Education
Irvine, CA
126 posts

I came to Suzuki with a BA in Music Education. I finished up to Book 5 before leaving for Japan to study with Dr. Suzuki for what became 3 years. I did book 6 even though my experience with Dr. Suzuki is equivalent in most respects with doing books 1-10.

I would still be happy to do the last books with SAA if I could just get the time off and ability to fund the locations where these books are offered. As a Music Major I have played beyound book 10 but the more I rethink and re-examine what I have already covered , I discover things about that music and its playing that I did not notice the first times through. The better you know something at its most basic levels the more ease and accessibility it gives you as you reach toward more difficult material.

No matter how much training you have there will be gaps in your knowledge and experience. Even review on something you discover you have down is useful self knowledge. You may have no idea where those gaps are with out reviewing the material with some one else’s feed back. If you already know what one teacher trainer knows about their level of specialization, it is time to find teachers who talk about things you haven’t though about.

I know experienced Suzuki teachers and even a few teacher trainers who are happy to sit in on a book again later in their career just to find out what another teacher trainer does with it. One of my friends from Matsumoto who was a piano kenkusei went to Japan 3 times for long term training. She used to joke with the piano sensei that this time she would be working on her Masters. Review Review Review. You can never know something well enough if you are going to teach it.
I am always waiting to find out what new discoveries I will make about something I already know how to do. You never know where or when these insites will come to you.

There is also great value in taking an institute class just to find out who else is teaching and to build on those relationships of learning together that can go on beyound that class.

Teaching is more than just understanding the music, musically and knowing the science of pedagogy. It is also figuring out as many different possible ways that you can teach something as there are students you will have in your studio. Kendal Sensei says often something like, “There are many methods for teaching the violin and not one of them is any good.” ;-)

I think you kind of know what he means by that. By the way the translation for sensei in Japanese implies, not “teacher” but “student”. Suzuki Sensei refered to us as “kenkusei” , meaning research student. Clearly as teacher trainees we can not spend enough time both formally and informally talking about teaching. I have had many inspirational discussions both in and out of class.

Ms. Cynthia
Studio:
Talent Education Center: Suzuki Violin
Director of Santa Ana Suzuki Strings located at the
Orange County Children’s Therapeutic Arts Center
Volunteer, bring music to under-served communities around the world. Create Sound Investments and Futures.

Lynn said: May 11, 2006
 
Suzuki Association Member
Violin, Viola
173 posts

the more I rethink and re-examine what I have already covered , I discover things about that music and its playing that I did not notice the first times through

So true.
I studied Aikido for years, and my Sensei spoke often of “beginner’s mind”—approaching known material open and available for new discoveries. Getting a black belt was not an indication of mastery; it meant that the student was now ready to commence serious study.

…or, as a 7 year old student observed when I asked whether the assigned 10 minutes of practice on an item was too little, too much or about the right amount of time: “Well, at first it was way too much, but because I had to do it for 10 minutes, I started paying attention, and then it wasn’t enough”

said: May 11, 2006
 7 posts

Wow, Lucy, that seven-year-old student just humbled me completely. I am in awe!

Cynthia Faisst said: May 11, 2006
Cynthia Faisst
Suzuki Association Member
Violin, Suzuki Early Childhood Education
Irvine, CA
126 posts

Its ok to acknowledge where we are in the process.

Has anyone read The Artist Way by Julia ??? I can’t remember right now. Some one else has my copy. If someone wrote a book about overcoming musical block along that idea of being the amateur (sp?) I would probably read it.

do wish this thing had spell check sometimes.

Ms. Cynthia
Studio:
Talent Education Center: Suzuki Violin
Director of Santa Ana Suzuki Strings located at the
Orange County Children’s Therapeutic Arts Center
Volunteer, bring music to under-served communities around the world. Create Sound Investments and Futures.

Connie Sunday said: May 12, 2006
Connie SundayViolin, Piano, Viola
667 posts

I have read that, and gone through the work. It’s too Oprah-ish for me and in all honestly, I didn’t find it helpful. I am finding William Starr’s book _The Suzuki Violinists_, extremely helpful.

Ms. Cynthia

Its ok to acknowledge where we are in the process.

Has anyone read The Artist Way by Julia ??? I can’t remember right now. Some one else has my copy. If someone wrote a book about overcoming musical block along that idea of being the amateur (sp?) I would probably read it.

do wish this thing had spell check sometimes.

Free Handouts for Music Teachers & Students:
http://beststudentviolins.com/library.html#handouts

Cynthia Faisst said: May 13, 2006
Cynthia Faisst
Suzuki Association Member
Violin, Suzuki Early Childhood Education
Irvine, CA
126 posts

I was surprised to find the Artist Way in the self help section of the book store. I was thinking more interms of the methods of processing she suggested for the exersizes more than the emotional feel or take that she has emotionally.

Developing the ability to solicit the amateur with in us is a skill to be developed. I think there are many approaches to it.

It is a very vunerable thing to approach something we alread know how to do one way and look at it as if we know very little about it. It is difficult to ask all the questions again as if we don’t already know the answers.

Ms. Cynthia
Studio:
Talent Education Center: Suzuki Violin
Director of Santa Ana Suzuki Strings located at the
Orange County Children’s Therapeutic Arts Center
Volunteer, bring music to under-served communities around the world. Create Sound Investments and Futures.

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