Clarification about copyright

Patricia said: Aug 15, 2011
 
Suzuki Association Member
Violin, Viola
Martinsville, NJ
58 posts

It is great with all the sharing going on in posts… but, I have a question for SAA to answer.
When should we post copyrighted material here and when should we not?
I know in some of the posts, words to songs, poems we use were published in a book 20 years ago… I bought the book it was 5×7 with a black cover… and it had all the pre-twinkle lyrics in the book….
are we able to post that here without infringing on the copyright?
I know the lyrics I have posted have been original. I don’t want to not allow someone the right to make money on their books?
Could someone clarify and does anyone remember the book I had….. I am lookinf all over for it—but 20 years ago—I think it may be gone? it had 2 or 3 pictures on the front—at least that edition did? Thanks

Rachel Schott said: Aug 15, 2011
Rachel SchottViolin
Harrogate, TN
127 posts

It sounds like you’re talking about “The Pre-Twinkle Book” (1980) by Jean Brandt and Kathryn Merrill.

Patricia said: Aug 15, 2011
 
Suzuki Association Member
Violin, Viola
Martinsville, NJ
58 posts

do you have that book? is it black with pics on it? we probably should be referring people to it on the posts? I didn’t remember the title of the book. Thanks Rachel.

Rachel Schott said: Aug 16, 2011
Rachel SchottViolin
Harrogate, TN
127 posts

I don’t have “The Pre-Twinkle Book” but it is listed on the SAA’s bilbiography and as I recall it has black and white pictures on the front.

I do much less talking, story-telling, poem reciting in my lessons than I was when fresh out of 1A Training and wouldn’t find this book particularly helpful for the teacher I am today.

Rachel Schott said: Aug 16, 2011
Rachel SchottViolin
Harrogate, TN
127 posts

BTW the Bibliography is available for download now, here:

https://suzukiassociation.org/about/search/?q=bibliography

Patricia said: Aug 16, 2011
 
Suzuki Association Member
Violin, Viola
Martinsville, NJ
58 posts

Thanks I don’t need the bibliograohy… I already have all the books. I think for a new teacher—getting that book is a great resource…. I hate to say this but alot of the posts to some of the new teachers here—were the exact songs/poems from that book.
So, I am not sure if that is ethical to post her poems/songs without first telling people where they came from and perhaps just referring people to the book?
SAA—what is the protocol for posting copyrighted material? (That was actually my first question. I only asked about the book because I know the material in the book was posted. Also some of Carolyn’s book has been posted on the discussion board too.)

I have some teachers I help here learn about suzuki method too and I would love for them to get that book—even though you say you don’t think it would help you—it did—sometime in the past and that is a good thing…. something tangible for teachers who need to open their own creative side to young children to keep referring to until they themselves can make up their own songs.

Alissa said: Aug 16, 2011
Alissa Rieb
Suzuki Association Member
Violin, Suzuki in the Schools, Viola
61 posts

Firstly, anyone looking to buy that nifty book: https://www.young-musicians.com/the-new-pre-twinkle-book-katherine-merrill-jean-brandt.html

Secondly, many try to post who they have learned the words from. For instance, I posted words to Go Tell Aunt Rhody. They are a combination of words I learned from Mary Straub and Susan Kempter.

Many studios do not use original words, not for lack of creativity or experience, but because group classes often teach one version of a song and that group class holds students from multiple studios.

My final thought on this is that copyright law when being applied to educational purpose and not for profit is very vague. Most times when it is less than 10% of a book, which one song or poem certainly is, and not being sold for profit, copyright often does not apply. The responsibility is then put on the author or publisher themselves to enforce credit given for their product.

Jennifer Visick said: Aug 16, 2011
Jennifer VisickForum Moderator
Suzuki Association Member
Viola, Suzuki in the Schools, Violin
998 posts

I’m not a copyright lawyer but I do know that “fair use” for teaching purposes only applies to copying a portion of a published or copyrighted work for a private, limited audience such as a class of your own students only.

Speaking as a moderator, we have a precedent of encouraging everyone who posts on the SAA forums to follow the SAA’s Aspirational Code of Ethics, which although they are aimed at SAA teacher members, are often applicable to online discussions for all forum members, regardless of SAA membership status.

Without giving any interpretation of how this applies to posting copyrighted material online (yet), I’m going to quote some things from those guidelines that may apply to the copyright discussion (You can read the full list of guidelines here):

we demonstrate responsibility toward the Suzuki philosophy by:
Maintaining high standards of personal conduct and professional integrity.

we demonstrate responsibility toward the Suzuki Association of the Americas by:
Demonstrating an open, sharing spirit and cooperation and collegiality toward other teacher members.

we demonstrate responsibility toward our students by:
Setting an excellent personal and musical example for students.

we demonstrate responsibility toward parents by:
Educating and encouraging parents to participate effectively in their child’s musical education.

we demonstrate responsibility toward our colleagues by:
Maintaining a professional attitude and acting with integrity in regard to colleagues.
Respecting the rights of colleagues when speaking of their work and/or students and respecting difference in teaching styles.
Giving credit to colleagues for ideas they have shared.

we demonstrate responsibility for our own personal and professional development by:
Conducting business in legal and honest manner.
Avoiding activities that would create a conflict of interest or the appearance of impropriety.

Rachel Schott said: Aug 16, 2011
Rachel SchottViolin
Harrogate, TN
127 posts

Also, were the authors of The Pre-Twinkle actually claiming ownership of the songs? Or were they, as we are now, sharing what we’ve gathered from teachers, friends, and creative students over the years?

Chicken, egg, chicken, egg…

Sara said: Aug 18, 2011
 Violin
191 posts

Also, while the words may have come from that book, who’s to say the people posting HAVE the book?
I have words written in my teacher training notes that I either picked up from observations, or the teacher trainer themselves—If I were to quote those words, they could be coincidentally from that book—yet I have never seen the book to know to reference it. You can’t just assume that someone is “infringing on copyright” just because they know something that also is in a book that you know of.
Also, children growing up “Suzuki Students” may have learned the words as students and just know them by heart as teachers. They also may never have seen the book, They just sing the words.

“What is man’s ultimate direction in life? It is to look for love, truth, virtue, and beauty.” Dr. Shinichi Suzuki

Emily said: Nov 29, 2013
 59 posts

For copyright laws on the internet, you have to ask yourself three questions to tell whether you are infringing on someone else’s property: 1) Did you only post 1% or less of the publication? (In this case, it’s a music book, did you only post 1% or less of the songs in the book) 2) Did you make a profit? (In other words, did you make any money from what you posted?) 3) Did what you posted, hurt the marketability of the publication you posted? (Did the original author lose out on money because you posted what you did?) Are the books still selling?If they are, then you did no harm. That is internet copyright infringement in a nutshell!

Emily Christensen
Music Teacher & Writer
www.musiceducationmadness.org

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