Brainstorming with Ben

We are fortunate to have Ben Verdery returning to our con-
ference to work with our guitar students and teachers. Ben graciously serves
on the SAA Honorary Board and he worked
with us as our 2008 conference clinician. I
was able to catch up with Ben between his
holiday break at Yale and an Australian
tour beginning in early January.

Thank you so much, Ben, for making time for this interview. There
are a few questions I’ll put to you,
but please feel free to talk about
whatever relevant guitar issues you
see as important as you travel and
work with students. For starters,
please share your thoughts on how
you find the guitar scene generally.
Commercial sources are saying the
guitar is in decline, that we don’t have
the interest because we don’t have
guitar “heroes” such as we did in the
‘70s and ‘80s. Would you agree?

Actually, I’m pretty encouraged! In
the last couple of years, I’ve been to
Staten Island to Susan E. Wagner High
School where they have a thriving
guitar department. Also, in Virginia,
Kevin Vigil works with several schools
with wonderful programs in Loudoun
County, and they have been strong
for many years. In Brooklyn I visited
James Madison High School, where,
by the way, both Bernie Sanders and
Carole King attended. They have a
great guitar department and it was
wonderful playing for them.
At Yale, we have a biennial guitar
festival that’s a one-day extravaganza,
and every year we start off with the
group from Hartt Community School

directed by David Madsen, a wonder-
ful Suzuki group. And my (former)

student Chris Mallett runs a Suzuki
school in the Bay Area that is thriving.

I’ve taught there twice and was astounded by the talent and enthusiasm

and the numbers—serious numbers
of students. Where you live in Texas,
Andrea, Austin is a huge guitar city! So,
when people say, “Interest in the guitar
is down,” I say, “Well, look at Austin!”
It is an interesting point, though,
what you said about lacking guitar
heroes is true. How that affects the
classical guitar, I don’t know because
it’s a different discipline. There’s no
question that guitar is not what it
was in those days. But people are still
playing. Home studios have grown
so much that people are able
to do extraordinary things

technologically. They can cre-
ate a song, use sounds and

programs on computers to
share their music pretty easily
and they sound really good.
That was not available to us
in the ‘80s—not even close.
And they can get it out into
the world. In whatever ways
things may have changed,
people are communicating.
On Instagram, on Facebook
and YouTube—I see a lot of
young people able to get their

name out, just by playing on Insta-
gram. I see a lot of that.

It sounds as if you visit many
classroom programs in schools or
community schools that feature
many different instruments with a
guitar department as a subset. The
latter type is more the private studio
model which would include most
Suzuki Guitar programs.
Yes, they are big programs and from
what I am seeing, Suzuki Guitar is in
such a different place than it was 15
years ago. Quite a few of my students
coming to Yale now have been Suzuki
students, and that was not the case in
the ‘80s and ‘90s. The Suzuki students’
training has served them so well.
Even at the graduate level, I see the
differences, and my students who
have not come from Suzuki studios
are interested in how they do it. They
have a sense of confidence about them

that many don’t who didn’t come up
in such a great system. Starting so
young, they are used to getting up in
front of an audience, they are used to
taking directions from other teachers,
and they have stage presence. Even
just learning about the bow from the
start, it may seem elementary, but
I’ll see students in a chamber music
concert at Yale and it’s obvious they
never worked on bowing. Then you
see the students who have learned
from such an early age how to accept

thanks from an audience, and the
difference is evident.
One thing about the guitar that is so
difficult, and I experienced this in my
early studies as well, was that I had
nobody to play with. Another great
feature of Suzuki is that you can be in
a group and play, what a wonderful
thing! I think that would have been
huge for me. One of my classes at Yale
last semester had an assignment to
study an etude. I said, “Everybody,
let’s all play this together,” and it was
hilarious, the sound and experience
of playing in unison felt very different
to us. All of these great guitar players
having this different experience, just
playing in unison. My student Dani,
who started with Suzuki, said, “In my
Suzuki lessons we did this all the time!”

Until this experience, it had not oc-
curred to me how valuable it could be.

Right along with the stage presence,
this is another big advantage—playing
together with your peers, and I think

that is something that a parent and a
student can really appreciate about the
Suzuki training.

Wow! It seems so commonplace for
us as Suzuki teachers, but hearing
you explain the long-term evidence
being visible even at the graduate
level is something I think all of our
parents—and teachers —will be
delighted that you have put it into
words for us.
After all, it’s really not just
about just making a soloist,
and these skills make them
better soloists, too. Many
of my students with Suzuki
backgrounds continue into
masters programs, go on to
have performing careers and
are wonderful soloists.
Other concepts that are very
important are improvising

and writing music, and I won-
der how much this has been

incorporated into Suzuki stud-
ies. One of the things I do when

I work with the high school
groups is a free improvisation that
I adapted from my studies with Leo
Brouwer.
We improvise with sounds that we

can explore on the guitar, for ex-
ample Bartok pizz, a single note with

vibrato or guitar percussion. I divide
the class into two groups and together
with their teacher, we write the list
of sounds on the board assigning a
number to each one. Both of us have
our back to the other and we conduct.
We put up a finger for each sound we
chose— one, two, or three. We do a
bunch of passes and sometimes we
set a timer, sometimes not. Again, my
back is to the other teacher, so we don’t
know what the other group is doing,
we are just listening. We may do it a
couple of times and we record them.
Some of it is just incredibly beautiful,
what we come up with. Then we get
the students to conduct and they are
eager for their turn—so you really see
their creative juices stoked.

Another form of improv and com-
position exercise we do uses rhythm

in a very basic approach. Let’s say they
learn the open strings on the guitar.
Then we’ll have them write something
that uses only two different rhythms,
say, quarter notes and half notes, only
on open strings. It’s good training
and I would like to see this more with
Suzuki Students.
Rhythm is a really huge thing. In
orchestral sight reading there are
some who feel rhy th m is more
important than the melody. I’ve been
told, in terms of hierarchy, pitches are
important, but the rhythms are the
most important thing first. So, that’s
another conversation.
An app I use that I think also speaks
to this is called TablaPro—it’s an app
that I live and die by. I use it often
in masterclasses. It gives you a tabla
player in all keys. Let’s say you want
to practice scales. You have a number
of different rhythms and the app is
pulse-driven. So, you decide to play e
harmonic minor. You put the tabla on
E and you hear [hums a tabla rhythm].
As you’re playing the scale, that pattern
you’re hearing is based on the 16th
note. There are also drone tones and
other sounds available. Tabla is just
such a great, friendly instrument with
the guitar. The two of them sound
fantastic together. In tabla, the touch is
so important and every player has such
different sounds—kind of like us with
our nails. I have even been practicing
my Bach with it recently.
I encourage you to buy the app
because I know you will love it! It’s
kind of pricey at $30, but well worth
the money. It’s a great example of
technolog y-assisted learning, and
you’re learning about another culture
by becoming accustomed to the style
and sound of the Indian rhythms they
use. I would love to see the Suzuki kids
meshing with Indian rhythms.
Helping Students’ Musical Choices
Sometimes students ask me, “Do you
think I should do this at this place in
the music?”

I say, “What do you mean ‘should’?”
To help them to think for themselves, I’ll
suggest, “What do you want to do here?”
S om et i m e s t e a c h i n g S u z u k i
masterclasses can be frustrating
because the kids just play perfectly.
So, then it’s, “Let’s think about a new
approach to this interpretation,” to
open the door to talk about what it is
exactly that we do when we interpret
music?
Many conductors have said that the
score is only 50 percent of the music
we play. So, yes, we have these notes
here—but what do we bring to it?
Where does the rest of it come from?
This is a very interesting conversation
to have with Suzuki students, or any
students really. They feel the need
for permission to do something in
the music, “Can I actually play a forte
there? Even though it says it’s a piano?”
I like to get into questions like there
is not “right” and “wrong,” it’s more
like, “What is the effect of you doing
a forte there? How does it affect the
phrase or the longer line?”
Let them explore, let them try it so
t he y rea l l y st a r t t h i n k i n g for
themselves. I don’t even ever use the
phrase “wrong notes.” I never say, “You
played a wrong note.”0020I say, “You
played a different note.” Sometimes
that different note can sound kind of
great! Maybe it’s not what is written,
but it sounds kind of cool.
When students ask about analyzing
music, I say, “You already know so
much intuitively, just from playing.
It’s not like you have to get into
Schenkerian analysis to know what
to do.”
One of my long-time mentors is
Seymour Bernstein. There is a movie
about his life that I think everyone
should see entitled “Seymour: An
Introduction.” It was produced and
directed by Ethan Hawke and it
can make you love music on such a
profound level. One thing Seymour
says is, “You eavesdrop on your own
musical intuition.” I tell my students
they do have a musical intuition. They
know how an ending should go.

So, when they ask “should I do this
or that”—they have already heard so
much music that it is engrained in
them more than they realize. Your
intuition can help you in analysis and
you haven’t really tapped into that
yet—you haven’t discovered that part
of your ear.
It is about what the effects of our
choices are. You can play the guitar
and put it on your left leg and feel great.
That may work for certain repertoire,
so here’s why we have a thing about
posture and which leg to put the guitar
on. By the way, Fernando Sor had it all
spelled out in his method book, so we
can also look there.
Posture/Injuries
One of the biggest battles I have is
with the amount of injuries and the
guitar. This is why it’s a huge deal
getting the body position right. Should
you use a footstool or not? I’m a big
believer in not using a footstool. But
then, I also say, “Here’s a list of people
who use a footstool: David Russell,
Manuel Barrueco, Sharon Isbin, Jason
Vieaux, John Williams…” [laughs]
So, I don’t think the footstool is the
problem.
But I do think that the more students
can learn about how the body works,
the better. If I was doing Suzuki, I
would bring a skeleton—you know how
you go to the chiropractor and he has
a skeleton in the office? I think that
should be mandatory. If you can be
10 years old and studying guitar and
know, for instance, what the weight of
your neck can do. I always talk about
jockeys because we have such a great
example there. I heard that if they
move their head, the horse feels it.
In my studio at Yale, I just had my
former student, Andrew Leonard,
come in and talk to us about Egoscue.1
In his 50s now, A ndrew says this
changed his life. He brought his
Egoscue trainer. My students were
just riveted. He showed them photos
of posture and he gave us exercises for
before and after you practice. I think
this type of information is so practical.

Last Question, sent in for you by
one of our teachers: “I’m curious
about how to get kids to own their
music and guitar playing into their
middle school and teen years.
Composing? Improv?”
I think that is a cosmic question for
the ages. I don’t think there’s an
answer to that because everybody is
so different.
There are things that would help.
Community. Playing with other people.
I think the more a guitarist plays with
other musicians—flutes, violins, lute,
theorbo—the more they will be inspired
and it’s not just going to their Suzuki
lessons. I think that if a guitar teacher
knows a Suzuki flutist, that would be a
pretty great combination. It would help
broaden the experience and they would
learn so much, as we all do when we
play with other instruments. The more
they play, even with other guitarists,

perhaps in duos with each other, the
more community is created.
I also think teachers need a really
great “hook.” It’s interesting how
many people tell me that the Brouwer
Etudes got them into the guitar. Etude
VI, Etude I—those “Simple Etudes,”
the first 10, are unparalleled. There’s

something about them. The Afro-
Cuban rhythms, the choice of notes—it

just hooks us! There has to be a way
to find that kind of a hook into these
other areas to captivate their interest.
Perhaps more teachers sharing their
ideas. Teachers with specialties in
areas like jazz or rock or who just have

something that works. Communica-
tion between teachers.

I am always asking my students
“What do you listen to?” “What was the
last thing that you listened to?” “Who
are your favorite artists?” That’s a good
conversation to have happen. One
of the magical things about teaching

music is we see that we have so many
things in common. I am nowhere
near the same age as my students, but
when they talk to me about what they
like, it seems there is no difference of
age and we’re completely bonded and
sharing and excited. But I have to ask
them, “What do you listen to?”
Some things have changed so much.
My students don’t have to have a whole
album from an artist. In our younger
days we would buy an album and even
if we didn’t know everything on it, we
listened to everything because we paid
for it, and eventually I liked everything
on the album. But things are different
now. I am coming out with a new CD in
February. It’s called “Scenes from Ellis
Island” and I recorded it with Simon
Powis. I notice when I sell CDs at my
concerts, it’s always people my age that
are buying them. None of my students
have CD players.
But I don’t think it does any good to
complain about these changes. Let’s
find out what we have in common
and what is going on with them. But
we’re not going to find out what’s going
on unless we ask our students. So, as

teachers we have to be more inquisi-
tive about where music is in their lives

outside of their lessons with you.
If you want them to own their music,
it’s got to be integrated into their life.

I remember many years ago, my dad
picked up a paper I had done for
my counterpoint class as a student.
He said, “Look at how negative this
teacher is! He’s yelling at you through
the whole paper about what you can’t
do. ‘Don’t write this. Don’t write that.’
There are so many rules! What can
you do?” It’s about balance. I think the
biggest thing you can do is help keep
the joy alive.

Endnotes

1. The Egoscue Method is a form of postural
   therapy used to eliminate chronic pain and
   increase functional mobility. http://www.
   egoscue.com/

Andrea Cannon’s Guitar
Arts Studio in Houston,
Texas includes training in
Theory and Performance
skills for guitarists as well
as the first Suzuki Early
Childhood Music program established in the US.
She serves as a consultant to the Spring School
District Music Department and directs Applied
Guitar studies at Lone Star College. She is Certified
through Music Teacher’s National Association and
is a Registered Teacher Trainer with the Suzuki
Association of the Americas.
Andrea is humbled and proud that arts advocacy
group Alarte of Guatemala City, Guatemala has

created a Scholarship in her name. The first recipi-
ent of the ‘Beca Andrea Cannon is enjoying the

benefits of a new guitar as well as expert Suzuki
instruction and she also has a beautiful smile.