Book 4
Vivaldi, Nachez, Baroque practice, etc.

said: Mar 26, 2008
 Violin
7 posts

WHAT A MESS with the VIVALDI EDITIONS in BOOK 4!!!

Talking with some of my European colleagues I heard that ESA (European Suzuki Association) has decided unanimously during the last meeting in London in September 2007 to not use anymore the Vivaldi Edition in book 4 of the A Minor concerto. This edition which we all were teaching is the edition by Nachez. We should all now use for the next 10 years another edition with completely different bowings and notes in the quick passages.

A few days later I heard that the German Suzuki teachers are not changing the Vivaldi edition in book 4. They use for their students and for their teacher training the Nachez edition and stick to the musical text of the original Suzuki Violin School (Nachez Edition). But other European countries changed officially to this other edition.

Completely in contrast to it we read in the SAA statement concerning the new editions:

“The (ISA) committee decided to retain the Nachez edition of the Vivaldi Concerto for its pedagogical value”.

WHAT A MESS with the VIVALDI EDITIONS in BOOK 4!!!

Dear ESA and ISA violin committee, can’t you decide which version we should use?

I don’t understand your logic, especially if I read the explanation in the SAA statement:

“ISA by-laws, approved by Dr. Suzuki, state that there is to be only one international edition, and that revisions or new editions can be authorized only by the particular ISA instrument committee subject to ISA guidelines. There were now two editions of the Suzuki Violin School (the revised Japanese Edition by Prof. Toyoda and the old Suzuki Edtion), which created the need to re-establish one international edition. As a result, the ISA Violin Committee was charged with reconciling the two editions and publishing a revised international edition.”

Who can explain me this messy situation with the Japanese, European and International Vivaldi Edition in the Suzuki Violin School?

Bruno from Italy

said: Mar 26, 2008
 Violin
7 posts

Already now with the ESA decision of choosing without need another Vivaldi edition we have lost our common musical language—one of the most important points of the Suzuki Method.
I hope this developement will not continue with the Vivaldi G Minor, the Handel Sonatas, the Veracini Gigue, the Bach A Minor concerto etc.

This will be a confusion without end. I am really sorry about this developement.

How could this happen? Especially because the Chair of the ESA and the ISA violin commitee is the same person: Christophe Bossuat from France.

Bruno from Italy

Martin said: Mar 26, 2008
Martin RuettimannISA Board
Suzuki Association Member
Violin
6 posts

It is relatively easy to answer this question:

First, all regions have one representative in the respective instrumental commitees. So the ESA itself has just one vote, as well as the SAA etc. Also, the teachers present in Cambridge did not vote finally to change the Nachez version in the Suzuki books, but it was agreed to have one alternative (“baroque”) version, which all teachers in Europe can now try and experiment with it in order also to find a balance between the pedagogical aspects for the Nachez version and the historical and “professional” view for the Malpiero version. It was also agreed that from now on when Vivaldi is on a list for a certain workshop it has to be announced which version will be played. A country or a individual teacher has the right to chose one of these versions with the respective consequences.
It seems to be a compromise everybody can live with. We don’t change the books but we also have an alternative version for baroque orientated Suzuki teachers.

If we are aware of the numbers of Suzuki violin teachers with various backgrounds and experiences, than we realize, that it is not easy at all to find wise solutions for the revision of the Suzuki violin school. Sometimes I wish that the people we elect in committees get more support. Reading through the topics in this forum we can see, that certain people are attacked quite harshly. But all representatives in the local associations, in the country associations, in the regional associations and in the various instrumental committees are finally elected by all teachers (through votes of the ESA board members, for instance).

said: Mar 26, 2008
 Violin, Guitar, Flute, Cello, Viola
120 posts

I posted this question before, but can someone please tell me about Nachez?

Jennifer Gray said: Mar 26, 2008
Jennifer Gray
Suzuki Association Member
Violin, Viola
28 posts

Thank you MR for your input………this seems to be a more informed and balanced view of what has been discussed by the ESA committee. I think that it is a very interesting idea to allow for the study of a more historically informed edition, and certainly would like to know more about the edition that has been suggested

Laurel said: Mar 26, 2008
Laurel MacCullochViolin
Langley, BC
120 posts

Oooh, how frustrating! That youtube link gives me no sound! my speakers are working fine, the little volume thingy is set correctly—but no music! Oh well, I can always admire his posture!

Laurel

edited to add: false alarm—looks like my kids were playing around with sound settings on the computer—sound is fine now!

Jennifer Visick said: Mar 27, 2008
Jennifer VisickForum Moderator
Suzuki Association Member
Viola, Suzuki in the Schools, Violin
997 posts

All posts previous to this one were originally posted under the thread “Violinists: Revised Book 1″. Although a few references may be best understood in the context of that thread, the main thrust of these posts can stand on its own and deserves a new thread. Also, the original thread was long enough that anyone who might have been interested in discussion about baroque vs. romantic versions of Vivaldi concertos would have been unlikely to wade through 7.5 pages of posts about revised book 1 in order to find it.

The “SAA statement” referred to in the first post on this thread can be found here: https://suzukiassociation.org/news/123/

Here is the link to the original thread:
https://suzukiassociation.org/suzukiforum/viewtopic.php?t=1893&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Please post comments about revised book 1 to the original thread.

Thanks!

-Jenny-

Debbie said: Mar 28, 2008
Debbie MiViolin
138 posts

Traim,
I’m not the expert here, but I think that Nachez was a Spanish concert violinist who wrote some other really great pieces for the violin as well. Hopefully someone else on this forum can say more than I can.

Debbie said: Mar 28, 2008
Debbie MiViolin
138 posts

So I am wrong. He was not Spanish.

Jennifer Peterson Hellewell said: Dec 12, 2012
Jennifer Peterson Hellewell
Suzuki Association Member
Violin, Viola
Henderson, NV
3 posts

Can anyone tell me which is the Baroque edition they use in Europe?

Jasim said: Dec 14, 2012
Jasim AlmusallamViolin
15 posts

The Baroque version is the available sheetmusic of the A minor everywhere. Tempo is faster, ornamentation, and no slurs in the middle (the famous Nachez controversy), but slurs for 3 notes after the downbeat.

I personally feel the Nachez is so misunderstood because its a romantic interpretation of the Baroque music. It always sounds best when paced correctly. It certainly has pedagogical value in freeing up the right hand, improving up stroke, and increasing concentration. The famous bowing parts should be paced slower (largamente). They will never stand on regular tempo. Nachez was criticized in his time despite his virtuosity to have more forte in tone than speed.

The Baroque bowing allows to play the whole pice in one tempo and mush faster.

There is also a rumor that nagging about Nachez bowing in europe makes your hair blonder and eyes bluer.

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